Thursday, October 18, 2018

Is There Another Civil War Brewing?

William Marvel, whom I call Bill, is at work on his 18th book on the American Civil War. He sees parallels between 1860 and now, and he details some of them. He speculates about the likelihood of military hostilities breaking out and, while he doesn't rule them out completely, thinks it unlikely because of geography.

I ask about similarities with the Bolshevik Revolution and subsequent Russian Civil War and he acknowledges them too.

We compare and contrast Legislation and Supreme Court decisions then and now like The Fugitive Slave Act and the Dred Scott Decision with Roe Vs Wade. I ask him if slavery compares as an issue with abortion when it comes to stirring up the citizenry.

That leads to an extended discussion of American divisions in evidence during the recent Brett Kavanaugh hearings in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The producer asks us if we think media complicate political divisions today and we both opine.


Jay said...

Very entertaining and interesting points.
If there is a civil war brewing today, of course it is going to be between liberalism and conservatism. Or, if you wish, Republicans Vs. Democrats. In that case I wouldn’t want to be on the liberal democrat side. It seems to me that most of the conservative side would be made up of folks who believe in arming themselves and believe in the second amendment. Also, there would be ex service people, People who are skilled in combat. Seems like it would be a very lopsided war.
The abortion issue does seem to be very central to all of this unrest. I really don’t think that most proabortionists really understand the depth of the argument against abortion. What makes no sense to me is that it is perfectly fine today to kill a human being in the womb but if I take an endangered species (nonhuman) life, an egg perhaps, and smash it, I could go to jail. In some states if someone shoots a pregnant woman and she dies, that shooter can be charged with a double homicide. Yet that same woman can go to an abortion clinic and end her own baby’s life.
One point in your interview really stuck out to me: when someone disagrees with you and they become very indignant and ask how COULD you believe that, instead of WHY do you believe that. In my opinion, that may be the dead center of this continuing screech of debate we are all having. I’m probably guilty of it myself, (as well as occasionally prodding the other side).
Also, I agree there is a realty to the statement that Fox News reaches a much smaller market then the rest of the news sources, which most definitely have a left leaning bias. I believe it’s something like 95% of all journalists in the media, except at Fox News perhaps, are liberals. I am constantly amazed when conversing with my liberal friends when they are unaware of things that have happened or things that have been said. Usually these things and events are not reported in the main stream media. Most liberals I know had no idea, for example, that Dr. Ford had several Go Fundme accounts that totaled over half a million dollars or more. They had no idea. And the studies done by several organizations prove that the main stream media usually covers negative conservative news over positive conservative news by an incredible margin. Small wonder why liberals believe that the current administration is full of crooks and the President is a real bad guy.
I have noticed too that my conservative friends watch and monitor all of the news sources. It seems to me that most liberals will refuse to watch or listen to conservative sources. Their experience with conservative voices is limited to mostly out of context sound bites. I remember when Rush Limbaugh said something slightly controversial and the next day all of the main stream media was parading around an out of context quote. I took up for Rush because I happened to have been listening that day and knew the quote being pedaled was not accurate. Still the liberals were sharpening their knives ready to take Rush down. Same thing with Trump speeches. I’ve heard many from start to finish only to find that the next day the media is misquoting or taking quotes out of context.
A very far cry from 30 or 40 years ago when the media just reported the news.

Anonymous said...

Wow, that is a mouthful. I don't see any Republicans calling for civil disobedience, causing physical harm to democrats, or any other problems. I do see radical democrats calling for violence, causing violence, and acting with complete irresponsibility to the democratic process. What I have seen are radical democrats, destroying records, releasing classified and confidential information to harm opponents and essentially acting like bolsheviks...especially when they are outvoted.

Tom McLaughlin said...

I'll let that Anonymous post above stand because it reads like you're a new poster here. Please use your name or a consistent pseudonym, or sign your name at the end of the post in the future or I'll have to delete it.

Jay said...

Sorry for being so long winded.

Brian said...

I skipped that first long winded post because anybody who spews out that "antifa is claiming that the war starts November 4", not realizing that the story was about LAST Nov. 4, and has been proven false, has no credibility whatsoever when it comes to current events and the actual realities of the world today.

Sorry Jay, but you have embarrassed yourself badly by blindly throwing out right wing propaganda, and you have been caught and called out for it. When will the far right finally take off it's blinders and try to communicate rationally with the rest of the world?

Jay said...

The above post is a perfect example of the wonderful dialogue that comes from those on the left. Notice that instead of rationally discussing any opinions of the poster, Brian/Spartacus, or B/S, chooses instead to turn the whole discussion into some sort of shaming of the person who expressed the opinions. His main argument has to do with another post from another topic. Also worth noting is that the point B/S raised is valid from his perspective. The left wing terrorist group antifa did take out an add claiming that the war would start on November 4, 2017, which is what I was referring to when citing the violence perpetrated by these left wing radical groups.
Mr. Booker, I mean Brian, decided that I had erroneously misread an article somewhere and assumed that 2017 meant 2018.. This sort of thing happens all the time on the left and I have seen it on the right as well. People sometimes are so caught up in their own self righteousness and self-perceived knowledge that they sometimes immediately assume error when there is none. Sometimes people are more consumed with being right then having a discussion. Folks on both sides think the other side are misinformed. This is a great example of a question posed by the author of this blog on the video above. I paraphrase, ‘Why do people ask HOW can you believe such a thing instead of asking WHY do you believe such a thing?’
Unfortunately, we have a long way to go before that happens, as is evidenced here.

Brian said...

Of course you didn't make an error, Jay. Like Trump, you never have been wrong about anything in your life. Of course when you parroted that "antifa is claiming that the war starts November 4" you were referring to some non-event from last year. But wait. You said "IS claiming", not "have claimed", and not "last" November 4. Hard to have a rational conversation with people that don't 'fess up to the truth.

I know WHY you believed that. You read it on a right wing outlet that you blindly trust. My question is still HOW can you believe this and HOW can you get so easily confused. Check more deeply into info you least figure out if they are talking about the past or not. Wow.

And hey....did you hear that Hillary has some sort of sex slave operation currently running in some pizza joint?

Jay said...

B/S, you always seem very sure of yourself. Perhaps YOU should ask yourself WHY you believe these things.

DAWN said...

I loved your initial response Jay. Some good comments in there. I totally agree with you. You said this, "I have noticed too that my conservative friends watch and monitor all of the news sources. It seems to me that most liberals will refuse to watch or listen to conservative sources." This immediately brought to my mind something interesting I found out while flying American Airlines last week.

I'm a news junkie. I have noticed that Fox quite often brings on the other side for their say in almost all their segments. Some times they will even say that they reached out to the opposition but they declined. Not so whenever I watched (I try not to) CNN or MSNBC. They'll have 2-3 or more all on the same side commiserating.

This is what I realized on my very long flight to and from Rome...when I turned on the TV available to us they only had BBC, CNN and MSNBC as options. All liberal stations. No Fox. No alternatives.

The problem with the liberals is they are totally being brainwashed by the media and they have no flipping idea. No wonder they are yelping when you look at what garbage they are being fed day in and day out, and they are getting lots of help. In the airports what's playing? CNN! Start paying attention. What's being played in the doctor's offices and other places that have TV's on.

I would challenge every CNN/NBC/ABC/MSNBC liberal to shut those stations off and to give Fox or another conservative show one month and just maybe they will see clearly now!

Jay said...

Dawn, I totally agree. It’s been my experience that liberals will not accept your challenge.
In my conversations with nearly every liberal I know they are unaware of ALL of the events taking place. They only know what they’ve been told by the main stream media which leaves out about half of the current news. What liberals get when they watch is usually liberally skewed misquotes and half truths but only “reports” that sound very anti conservative. In these conversations I ask liberals why they don’t know certain pertinent facts and they can’t explain. I then challenge them to watch Fox News and see what they’re missing.
So far, to date, not a single one has done this.

Brian said...

Again, alternate universes. I have found that most any bar or public place I walk into I see Faux News playing. I also listen willfully for long stretches during the 3 hours a day I spend in the car, both to Fox and Hannity on Sirius radio. I check what I hear with all the other evidence out there and can see that Nationalized media is clearly trying to brainwash you into whatever Trump wants said. Conservatives I talk to are completely blank about so many actual facts. If the far right would broaden their horizons and take in all information, not just the stuff spooned to them, they would not be so easily hoodwinked into believing last years fake news, or at least realizing it is from last year and they shouldn't still be parroting it back. At least pay enough attention to get you propaganda talking points straight.

Why do I try and communicate with people that have proved themselves to be so impossibly closed minded and unwilling to find out real truths? To flip an old saying "I used to be amused, now I'm just disgusted". This is not some two team sporting event, an US against Them, a Red vs. Blue. Let's purple this country up.

Jay said...

Again, alternate universe.

Brian said...

I prefer the universe in which we are not living a year in the past.

Jay said...

I prefer a universe in which people see things as they are, not as they wish them to be.
I’m reminded of a story:
Donald Trump is on a yacht with some very powerful Senators and news people. One of the Senators stands too close to the side and falls overboard. He’s floundering in the water and it looks like he’s going to go under.
Donald Trump, our President, jumps overboard and walks on top of the water over to the Senator and picks him up and carries him back to the boat and puts him in.
Headlines the next day: President Trump can’t swim!

Brian said...

Another story, but this one true and not made up.

Donald Trump reacts to a brutal murder of a women by a Nazi by claiming that some Nazis are "very fine people", and the headlines on Fox News and other right wing outlets is NOT that Trump said anything stupid, but is brushed aside instead.

My advice is for you to start seeing things as they are if that is the universe you want.

Jay said...

B/S, as I’ve said Many times before, the liberal media takes quotes out of context or just plain makes stuff up. It’s been going on for years. Small wonder so many liberal socialist democrats hate the President.

Here’s the actual quote: (From USA Today)

‘Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old legal assistant, was struck and killed when a white supremacist slammed his car into a crowd of counterprotesters. And two Virginia state troopers died when their surveillance helicopter crashed near the protests.

At that time, Trump argued there was blame on both sides and equated the actions of white nationalists, who carried Nazi flags and chanted "Jews will not replace us," to that of counterprotesters.

"You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides," Trump said.’

If you don’t understand the difference or the reason that was said, you really are without a doubt part of the problem. Mindless hate from the left is akin to nazism. Notice too that this happened in early August. It’s just now filtering out in its misquoted form to those on the left. It takes the left wing media time to distance itself from the truth so that fools will forget what happened and believe the propaganda.

And B/S, if you really believe the President would be dumb enough to say what you seem to believe he said, you really have been misinformed.

Brian said...

"you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides,"

What don't you understand? Both sides includes the Nazis. So he was saying there are some very fine Nazis. No two ways about it.

Trump has said the dumbest things imaginable...there is nothing he could say that would surprise me now.

Why, he could say of an evil dictator that "He wrote me a beautiful letter and we fell in love" and I wouldn't even blink. That after he previously said 'Being nice to Rocket Man hasn't worked in 25 years, why would it work now?"

And he was definitely thinking about blind followers like you when he said 'I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's, like, incredible.'

Brian said...

And you obviously did not watch anything other than Fox and your right wing news outlets, because the real news was all over that incredibly moronic statement from the second it left his lips.

How many times have I had to point out things you have missed?

Jay said...

B/S, please continue. During my breaks from burying myself in right wing propaganda and Rush Limbaugh I like to gopher up a little and hear truth from people such as yourself.
Seriously though, I’ve always believed in common sense. So many things liberals claim and swallow and parrot make no sense at all. Liberals have cried wolf so many times that these days no one takes them seriously anymore.
Ludicrous. If a conservative claims the sun will come up tomorrow there will be thousands of liberals standing in the morning sun screaming that it’s still dark. Then they’ll blame Donald Trump for the lack of sunshine. Then the liberal media will complain that Trump is putting solar panel manufacturers out of business.
Your anger is noted. Your denial of the facts as well.

Brain said...

I see you are ignoring the stuff you were wrong about and have veered off into your usual babble of vague accusations and make believe jokes and stories, with no substance to back them up. Your ignorance is noted. Your factual errors have been pointed out. Deal with it. Cute how you project your anger!

Brian said...

Back to the ridiculous notion for a moment that the left is much more responsible for threatening violence than the right. How about today's news that five pipe bombs have been discovered that were mailed off to Soros, Clinton, Obama, CNN and Schultz. Let's just poo-poo that away and refocus on the horrors of being harassed in a restaurant, right?

Jay said...

Some people think that because they believe something is so, and especially if they saw it on Main Stream Media News, that it IS so. Truth is, just because you believe something is so, doesn’t mean it is. And today the left wing socialist main stream media is nothing more then an arm of the democrat socialist party. The left wing media machine has done so much damage in this country. Almost as much as Pravda did in Russia. It incites hatred in left wingers and moves them to violence and basically turns them into little Nazis. It’s almost humorous that morons are going around calling themselves antifa when they are practicing fascist tactics.
What should be worrisome to democrats is that the left has cried wolf so much and tried every insane moronic tactic to get back power that nobody believes them anymore. Everyone that I’ve talked to, democrats included, believers very possible that these pipe bombs were sent by a leftist to try to gin up sympathy. I wouldn’t doubt this myself. It wouldn’t surprise me at all. Nothing the left has done has worked and they are getting desperate. The whole caravan mob heading this way has been bowled over by this latest thing. Nothing’s working democrats. You lost. Get over it. You have six more years to suck it up like we did when the big pretender liar Obama tried to ruin this country.
Oh, and B/S, please tell me exactly what I got wrong. I’ve asked you several times and you don’t seem to have a specific answer. Instead of trying to discuss the topic at hand you turn your posts into personal attacks. Fine. I rather enjoy it. Gives me something to do when I catch a break in my busy schedule. Heck, if you weren’t on this blog I wouldn’t have anybody to laugh at. And I do. So please Brian/Spartacus, or B/S, please enlighten me about what I’ve got wrong. It’s been a long day and I could use the entertainment. We all want to hear your wisdom.
And by the way, since you brought it up, don’t you think it’s odd that not only did none of these bombs go off but that CNN actually took a picture of the thing? I mean, honestly, I know you’re Uber brave and Spartacus and all, but wouldn’t you be in the next country if you found one of those things? Also, when democrat staffers have already been proven to have leaked private addresses to people, whom do you think is responsible for getting the addresses of Soros and others? Too many questions and the left wing media, ya know, what you pay attention to, is already running the headlines ‘Bombs sent to Trump enemies’ as if it was the Presidents fault.
The party of antifa and the KKK rides again.

Jay said...

And but the way, both groups were not Nazis.
Also the headline of that article read “Trump condemns violence on both sides”.
Seriously B/S, are you testing my knowledge or are you really just that misinformed?
Maybe what we should do is get all of these hate groups together, antifa, the KKK, the Nazis, The Black Panthers, white supremacy groups and the rest of the left wing radicals and dump them on an island and let them fight it out. They can put on masks or hoods and mail pipembombs to themselves and stop traffic, damage property, riot and scream at each other.
You could have CNN cover it and blame everything on Trump and the Republican Party.

Brian said...

Wow, what a lot of blah blah blah...I skimmed the first one to see if there were any signs of particular instances or facts that you are riled up about, but it seems to be just more generalities and partisan BS. Again, why take you seriously when you are so weak at dissecting the news? Not even knowing that you are getting tricked by year old news??!! Not being able to figure out for yourself that "very fine people on both sides" obviously and unarguably includes the side of the Nazis??!!?

You better check out the stories that Hillary was behind the pipe bombs!! And that Obama plans on shooting up a day care so guns can be banned! And that all liberals plan on egging conservative's homes on Halloween before taking over the country while dressed up in tranny costumes!!

I'm sure we'll chat again on another post....ciao for now

Jay said...

B/S, you really make a LOT of assumptions in your thinking process. You also make a lot of accusations. I don’t know why you are so hung up on what you think was a mistake on my part. It doesn’t matter. Frankly I’m beginning to believe that your posts are merely trolling and an attempt to get folks riled up. Much of what you say is exactly what you accuse others of. Good tactic practiced by democrats for years.
I doubt there will be another civil war at this point in time. As long as there is the MSM and liberal democrat politicians ginning up hatred for conservatives there will be a lot of hate and misunderstanding. It seems to me however that the democrats I know are becoming more aware that they’ve been lied to for years. Liberal news networks ratings are tanking. Liberal newspapers are dying. Hard core democrats are becoming very desperate. Folks like George Soros are throwing money at socialist causes with ever more diminishing returns. I believe the Kavanaugh hearings will be a touchstone in the beginning of the end of the democrat party as we know it, as it has morphed itself into over time.
Our great country and it’s founding fathers and founding documents are still great. We have our faults but still continue to try to fix ourselves. Going forward, the msm is losing. Democrats are barely holding on. Liberalism doesn’t work. It has never worked. BO proved that in his last farce of a Presidency. Hillary Clinton proved that democrats lie and consider themselves above the law. All of these things are proven and coming to light more and more each day.
Had Hillary won the election we may never have known the depth of the crimes of the democrat party.
But she didn’t win.

Brian said...

I guess I have a little Trump in me...the bullying aspect. Because I sure feel like a bully picking on a defenseless victim now.

Jay: "Everyone that I’ve talked to, democrats included, believers very possible that these pipe bombs were sent by a leftist to try to gin up sympathy. I wouldn’t doubt this myself."

Which shows you should get out of your basement more and actually meet a few members of the majority of the population, and you'll discover that these types of conspiracy theories just exist in the alt-right world bubble. Hate to break it to you, but Sandy Hook did happen. But this conspiracy theory was burst today, unless that's actually some leftist hippie driving around in a sick, Trump supporting van, and not actually an alt-right wacko who was pushed over the edge by the non-stop divisive rhetoric stemming from the White House and alt-right media.

Trump's reaction to this terrorist act? Whine like a little bitch about the media being unfair, like the baby little snowflake he is. Kind of like the whining that you are echoing in support of him.

But I need to stop this, because I now feel like the school bully walking up behind you and whacking your tin-foil hat of your head.

Jay said...

Once again I am laughing out loud.
The only bullying being done is by the msm bullying gullible people into believing them.
B/S, you sound like you’re getting a little upset.
Your disrespect for our Commander in Chief is noted. Your opinion of him is known by those who read these posts. Calling him a whiney little bitch is not surprising coming from a die hard indoctrinated leftist.. I might add that when our President holds rally’s he draws thousands of people who want to share in our country’s reawakening. Obama drew, what, 10 people? Biden drew 5?
Again, I’m laughing out loud.
Speaking of bully’s, there are people who might find your remarks a little distasteful. In the real world, trying to ‘whack a tin foil hat off’ someone’s head might cause you to be wearing that hat someplace where the sun don’t shine, which would likely cause you to be unable to speak. :-)
I’d use discretion when typing your posts. Try to stick to the topic and leave your hatred and fear behind your moms iPad. This might cause you to actually participate in a discussion and you might actually learn something.
But for now, I’m still laughing out loud.
Question fo the rest: is anybody buying this stuff about this moron in Florida? Sounds like some sort of setup to me. The guy is obviously a whack job but there’s too many things there that don’t add up, at least to me.

Brian said...

Rallies? Check out and compare the inauguration photos...(but wait, Trump said his was the biggest) Game over. Pathetic enough for both of you trying this, but it does not get any more pathetic then desperately carrying on with the so quickly debunked conspiracy theory. You have proved you never step outside your bubble or you would have known that Trump praising Nazis was widespread news with the real media and you wouldn't be spouting year old stories thinking they were new. And now you brag 3 times in one post about cackling to yourself out loud as you sit in your basement....probably tacking "evidence" to the wall to prove your conspiracy. Oh, and we did land on the moon.

I know it is hard to resist responding to your lunacy, so I promise that I will not return to peek at this thread. No more bullying, I'm sorry. Rant on without me.

Jay said...

So you’re denying that Trump rallies outdraw democrat rallies? I just want to be clear.
As to the Nazi thing, I’d suggest you actually do some research and read what the President actually said instead of listening to misquoted or incomplete sound bytes on CNN. Really, believe it or not, anyone can look this up provided your mom will allow you to do a google search.
And really B/S these personal attacks of yours, while entertaining, are getting old. They are obviously an attempt by you to sidestep the fact that you have no facts, no knowledge and are just consumed with hatred. Nothing more.while I do laugh at your comments, I feel a little sorry for you. No one takes you seriously and your attempt to gloss over your lack of knowledge is plainly evident. Your projection onto others of your own low self worth is poignant.
But I’m still laughing.