Thursday, December 20, 2018

Left & Right December 19, 2018




We begin with a question from the producer about Trump's wall. I favor shutting down government if it's not funded. Gino doesn't.

I read a June 2016 tweet from former Obama campaign manager and advisor David Plouffe which said: "It is not enough to simply beat Trump. He must be destroyed thoroughly. His kind must not rise again."

I content that this tweet sums up all the shenanigans by the Obama Administration that transpired during the 2016 campaign and continuing to this day by the Deep State: The Democrat campaign to destroy Donald Trump. We then discuss the dodgy dossier compiled by the Hillary campaign and used by the FBI under Obama. It gets contentious. Gino talks over me almost constantly, especially when I'm making points painful to the left.

Gino points out how much turnover there has been in the Trump Administration vs Obama and Bush in their first two years and lists those who have resigned or been fired. He claims Trump isn't draining the swamp so much as he is the swamp.

I bring up unrest in Europe, especially France, but also the UK, Belgium, and the Netherlands -- that it started because of French President Macron's measures purported to mitigate climate change according to the Paris Accords, but the spread to encompass other issues. I contend that the EU is threatened because of widespread immigration, legal and illegal, that is unpopular with ordinary Europeans but popular with elites. I point out similarities with issues in America in light of the border wall debate here.

Gino claims I want a more authoritarian country like Russia, like Turkey. I deny that because I'm pointing out the civil unrest in Europe over immigration, etc. that I favor dictatorship. He brings it up again. I deny it again.

We discuss the murder of Khashoggi in Turkey. I point out his association with the Muslim Brotherhood as a reason he was killed and we should continue our alliance with Saudi Arabia against Iran, the bigger threat. Gino defends Iran, while I point out its terrorist activities across the region in response to Gino's question.

21 comments:

Brian said...

I wonder how Trump supporters rationalize the disrespect he has shown towards the military. Just imagine if Obama disregarded the advice of his generals and military experts and pulled out of a fight against Isis. They are defeated? How would Trump know that when all the experts tell him otherwise? Generals must love this "bone-spur" cowardly slob acting like he knows more than them. Trump has really pleased his boy Putin who is publicly celebrating Trump's Tweety decision. How can any Trumper not care about him constantly acting like Putin's little bitch? How can they disregard his total lies about "having no involvement at all" in Russia, then when that is proven to be a lie, slipping into "it doesn't matter"? Nothing suspicious, nope. Look the other way, he's our guy. Partisanship over country.

I think the majority of the population agrees that "It is not enough to simply beat Trump. He must be destroyed thoroughly. His kind must not rise again." Like Bernie Madoff, like the CEOs of tobacco who knowingly spread cancer by hiding evidence for profit, like any scumbag who puts personal wealth and power above all else, they should not rise again.

It has become simply incredible how every facet of Trump's life is proving to be crooked! It seems he was raised and lived his whole life in a swamp. He knows no other way. It is killing Trump that he knows that he is seen by most as a clownish punchline and not a president...but what a bad joke.

Nixon's supporters hung with him for years before caving to facts and history looks poorly upon them. History will really be unkind to those turning a blind eye to Trump. Maybe this gets dragged out long enough for him to finish his term, but jail certainly looks like a possibility. I would bet every cent I own for a donut that he is not re-elected. He is as good as destroyed.

As for the wall, why is he shutting down the government over HIS broken promise? What happened to the Mexicans paying for it? He is going to put thousands of workers with no pay over the holidays over his broken promises and his failures? What a bozo.

Jay said...

Brian/Spartacus.....More lies and BS from B/S.
Your very first sentence is false. The falsehoods continue through the entire 5 paragraph long example of misinformation.

The fact that people like Brian seem to hate Trump as if he were the devil incarnate is testament to the media’s reach of our citizens.
When I was old enough to understand heady topics like world politics I was told by the media what was happening and who said what and what the outcome was. In other words, facts. That was a different time.
Today, things are very different. People are not only fed half truths but are not being told the entire story. The “journalism” being practiced by the main stream media today is filled with a putrid brand of hate and bias that spills out into those who are ready to believe it.
The half of the country who voted for Donald Trump and who believe in what he’s doing are sometimes astonished at the depth of hatred for our President. In our minds 2+2=4. It seems that the haters believe 2+2=3. To understand this one only has to watch a couple of hours of each of the main stream media networks, especially the cable news outlets. When you see what is being reported, what is being left out, and HOW things are being reported, you can understand how some folks in this country have come to hate our President.
It truly does seem crazy to those of us who gather our news facts from multiple sources but makes perfect sense when you watch, what to me, is just plain vile filth that these days passes for journalism.
It’s not surprising that over 90% of journalists are liberal democrats and almost all have contributed to at least one candidate in the democrat party. There is no more objectivity in reporting today. The media have an agenda and every day they hide it less and less.

Brian said...

The first sentence can't be "false", it is an opinion. Of mine, and of military experts and generals like Mattis who believed Trump should have heeded his advice. And now he has quit. One can only take so much disrespect.

I agree that "the “journalism” being practiced by the main-est of mainstream media today (Fox News) is filled with a putrid brand of hate and bias that spills out into those who are ready to believe it." But as I listen to Fox, and Hannity on my commute I see by what is being reported, what is being left out, and HOW things are being reported, how some folks in this country still support the President.

And not near half the country voted for Trump. Only about a quarter of eligible voters did, a little less than Hillary. Some of them now, and all the rest of the population, is astonished at the depth of crookedness, incompetence, and hatred coming from the president.

I am not proud of this, but I am talking a perverse pleasure in watching these steps of the cretin's inevitable downfall and disgrace.

Jay said...

Opinion is a tricky thing. If I have an opinion that my car can fly, my opinion is most likely in error and would be false.

Brian said...

You are confused jay.....whether or not a car can fly does not involve opinions. Unless your car can fly it is a fact that it cannot, pure and simple. Facts are not tricky things. You have seem confused about this for a long while so I am glad to clear this up for you.

It is a fact that Mattis resigned because his views are not aligned with Trump's. You can have the opinion that he did not feel disrespected by having the military's advice ignored if you want to, or that military members did not feel disrespected by having Trump not take a few minutes to honor them on Veteran's Day. That is your right. But facts are facts.

Brian said...

Interesting to hear that Mick Mulvaney's (new acting Chief-of-Staff for Trump) views on the the border wall and immigration are remarkably similar to my own, calling Trump's ideas about the wall "simplistic" and "absurd and almost childish."

Mulvaney went on to say: "And by the way, the bottom line is the fence doesn't stop anybody who really wants to get across. You go under, you go around, you go through it. And that's what the ranchers tell us, is that they don't need a fence. What they need is more manpower, and more technology, and more willingness to enforce the law as it exists today. There are parts of our border that are secure and parts of our border that are not. A lot of that comes down to whether or not we are just willing to enforce the law as it exists. So it's easy to tell people what they want to hear, 'build the darn fence, vote for me.'"

Exactly. There are way better ways to spend five billion dollars that would better protect our borders. But our childish simpleton of a president is stuck on his "great big beautiful wall". Absurd indeed.

But now he has to bite his words, eat his pride and his values, and kiss the big baby's butt for his new position of power.

Jay said...

A locked front door on my house will not guarantee that no one will get into my home but it’s a damn good start. The wall should have been built 50 years ago. Donald Trump ran on building a wall and he is trying to fulfill his campaign promises. It is not “Trumps Wall” like the little cry baby Church U Schumer calls it. It is all of the people who duly elected President Trump. No surprise at his rally’s, that are attended by thousands of people, that at some point a chant erupts, “Build That Wall”.
I am very much for a great big beautiful wall. So is most of the country. The few liberals who are against it should remove the doors from their residences.
Just because democrats have an opinion that the wall shouldn’t be built it doesn’t change the fact that it would be a great deterrent. Democrats like to pay lip service to border security but don’t actually want to do anything about it.
Build the wall first, then we’ll talk.
Again, any democrats don’t want a wall, take down your front doors. Put your money where your mouth is.
I am proud of our President for standing up to the weasels that are called democrats. Pelosi and Schumer are a worthless drain of tax dollars. My opinion and a very real fact.

Brian said...

I was not quoting a liberal. It was a republican member of Trump's cabinet who tried to explain that the wall idea was "simplistic, absurd and almost childish."

The USA TODAY Network asked the 534 members of the House and Senate whether they support a down payment on the wall and found fewer than 25% of Republicans willing to stand up for the plan.

Sen. John Cornyn, the No. 2 Senate Republican who represents the border state of Texas said: "I don't think we're just going to be able to solve border security with a physical barrier because people can come under, around it and through it."

Those are facts. You are still very confused if you think that your opinionated ramblings were facts. By thinking that only a few liberals are against it you are showing mind-numbing ignorance.

But let's end this with the thoughts of people you, no matter how highly you think of yourself, must admit are more knowledgable on the matter than you are. Border Patrol agents on the front lines say they need more technology and additional personnel to curb the illegal traffic, according to a report released on Thursday by Democrats on the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

The report was based on internal Customs and Border Protection documents that concluded that less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggestions to secure the Southwest border mentioned the need for a wall.

I"m guessing it is not them that has the simple, childish minds.


Jay said...

It doesn’t matter to me who is quoted saying that the wall is not a good idea. If the President himself was against it, I would have to disagree with him.
Walls work. That’s a fact. Build a great big beautiful wall and then add the other security measures to it and there you have it.
Again, anybody who disagrees with this fact should immediately remove their doors. Not doing so is hypocrisy. Leaving your house unprotected without a locked door is precisely the state of most of our border at this time.
Like I said earlier, the wall should have been built 50 years ago. Arguing this is a moot point. We need the wall now. Fact.

Brian said...

I forgot to address your childish and very simplistic analogy between border security and front doors. For one thing, I need a door to keep out the cold in the winter and the bugs in the Summer. If I lived in an environment where that was not necessary, and I had well-trained security patrolling my property with weapons and the best technology, a front door would seem quite unnecessary. I love open air living!

A question you "forgot" to answer:

Do you really believe that Trump knows better than Mattis and other military experts?

Brian said...

FACT: the statement "We need the wall now" is not a fact. It is an opinion. Words have meanings. (Well, ok, not for your Trumpy Messiah, but for sane people). It's a pity you just can't face the facts. It must be a very confusing world for you when opinions are blurred together with facts and you can't distinguish the two. Very Trump-like.

Jay said...

I’ll take being called “Trump-Like”.
And it is a fact that not only do we need the wall now, we needed it fifty years ago. The amount of money we could have saved by now would be staggering.

Brian said...

Glad you like being compared to a an absurd, childish clown who is destined to be a historical punchline. It suits you.

He doesn't answer tough questions either, and also has trouble understanding the definitions of simple terms.

You have revealed yourself to be so egotistical that you believe that your opinion is so much more valid than that of others that your opinion becomes fact. You would tell Border Agents to pipe down because you know so much more than them that “arguing this is a moot point.”

That is like Trump telling Mattis and the experts the same thing about military matters. That is like telling climate scientists that you know more than them, so stop arguing with you. You know the facts, they just have bad opinions, right?

For the record: “Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.”

That is from NASA.

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

But I guess the all-knowing you knows more than those silly people working at NASA as well. You are a true wonder knowing so much more than the experts in so many areas! Yes, acting like the Messiah is Trump-like.

Brian said...

If you want to play the money angle, most experts would disagree on you there too. But you know better then them of course. There seems to be no subject in which you are not all-knowing.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/articles/2018-02-06/from-an-economic-and-civic-standpoint-immigrants-are-good-for-society

Jay said...

B/S, Your opinion of our President is pretty lame and shared by many democrats who, like you, don’t know any better and most importantly, it’s an opinion. An opinion based on the mindless hate you democrat liberals swallow from the main stream media and means as little as your endless babble. Your opinion of me doesn’t matter to me at all. In fact, given your propensity for a proponderance of Poppycock and hate speech, I am happy to be on your list of people whom you don’t respect.
As to The President disagreeing with the General, that has never EVER happened in the life of our country. Donald J Trump is literally the first President to ever disagree with one of his Cabinet. Oh wait....I might be in error there. Also I think it’s convenient and hypocritical for smug democrats, (aren’t they all), to pick and choose which issues they wish to support and when. Nothing new or different here. Democrats only support issues which they think might lead to the President looking bad. They actually don’t care about the issue. Only that it could reflect on the President poorly. Which it doesn’t. You might want to study a little history sometime.
As to your endless links, I don’t even bother reading them. For every link you can find to support your I’ll informed opinion, I can find twenty to support the facts. I’ve already read the crap you post and have dismissed it as lacking in any value or common sense. I don’t have to read that trash again to know it’s B/S BS.
The facts are now and as before, we needed the wall 50 years ago. We need it now. It is a great deterrent and will save us a ton of money in the long run. Plain and simple.
And B/S, did you and your little snowflake democrat hate-bags remove your doors yet? If you didn’t, you are truly another bunch of democrat liberal hypocrites. Is there any other kind?
Why don’t you quit commenting on world affairs and instead only comment on subjects you know something about. If there is anything. So far your track record is pretty abysmal. Hilarious, but abysmal.
The topic of this blog is Left and Right. Unfortunately there is no longer the “Loyal Opposition”. Unfortunately, today we see nothing more then people who can’t seem to get over an election they lost who are hell bent on trying to take down a president who beat them at any cost, even if it means nothing of value will get done while moron crooks like Pelosi, Schumer, the Clintons, the Obama’s, well, most of the democrat party, continue to walk around free. The gridlock in government rests squarely on the shoulders of these democrat crooks and liars.
And B/S, if you want, send me your address and I’ll send you the tools to remove your doors so that you can truly be behind the no-wall scenario. After you take your doors down, feel free to pass those tools around to any of your liberal democrat friends who also are hypocrites. For me, I keep my doors locked at night and I want a wall, a big beautiful wall, as do all the folks who elected our President.

Brian said...

"The facts are now and as before, we needed the wall 50 years ago."

You are making no progress in your efforts to distinguish facts from opinion. You remain thinking that your thoughts are facts while those of experts like Border Agents are just have bad opinions. Incredible egotistical and naive.

Also, your reading comprehension is still very much lacking. Like me repeat what I already said about your dippy doors:

"I forgot to address your childish and very simplistic analogy between border security and front doors. For one thing, I need a door to keep out the cold in the winter and the bugs in the Summer. If I lived in an environment where that was not necessary, and I had well-trained security patrolling my property with weapons and the best technology, a front door would seem quite unnecessary. I love open air living!"

Let me know if there are any tough words in there that you need help.

Oh, and since you can't give up on this front door thing, I assume that your property has a great big beautiful wall around it, high enough so nobody can climb over it. Because obviously any Trumpy that doesn't have one must be a hypocrite, right? Don't you hate when your dopey analogies get turned around on you?

And of course you don't read the links, that would force you to hear what experts have to say which would interfere with your uninformed gut feeling on the matter. It is an uncomfortable feeling being exposed to different ideas, and real facts that dispute their beliefs, but one people must face in order to grow and learn.

You are complaining about Democrats causing gridlock? Remember Boehner and his plans for Obama’s agenda:? “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.” Hypocritical much?

Jay said...

Big difference between Obama’s agenda and Trumps. Anyone with common sense, (this precludes democrats), could see that much of Obama’s agenda was actually bad for the country. And it was.
Again, yes, there are a few “experts” who believe a wall is not a good idea. There are also “experts” who think that we never went to the moon.
Nice try with your little wall scenario. It’s a desperate attempt but it failed. The onus is still on you and all of your liberal democrat hate-bags to put your money where your mouth is. We’ve all seen the problem at our southern border for decades. Even democrats have railed about it, calling illegal immigrants “leeches” and other nasty terms. As yet both parties have kicked the can down the road until our current president decided to actually do something about it. Now that something can actually be done, Dems are opposed to it.
So B/S, take down your doors if you think a wall is such a bad idea. Otherwise, again, you are another liberal democrat socialist hypocrite. Is there any other kind?
As to your precious links, again, for the 50th time, I have already read the tripe put forth by certain “experts” and dismissed it. Just because you buy into that drivel is no reason for me to reread that baloney.
Two things to ponder Brian/Spartacus: 1) if you lived near the border your attitude would be very different. If you had a relative or friend murdered or hurt at the hands of an illegal your opinion would be very different. 2) if it was a sure bet that these illegals would eventually be voting republican the wall would have been put up years ago. And while we’re at it, since you will be taking down your doors to allow access to your home by anyone at anytime, how about you and your liberal friends volunteer to take in an illegal alien family and let them have your food, give them money, let them drive your car, etc etc. in this way you can prove that we really don’t need a wall.

Brian said...

Hell yes there is a big difference between Obama’s agenda and Trumps. Anyone with common sense, (this precludes the alt-right), could see that much of Obama’s agenda was actually good for the country, and that Trump's is horrendous.

No, there are no "experts" that think we didn't go to the moon. Experts would be NASA or professionals is space technology, etc. Name one......I'll wait.

"MY" little wall scenario? It was yours and I exposed it for the childish thinking it was. Flipped it and embarrassed you. Put your money where your mouth is and build those great big beautiful walls around your homes. Or remain hypocrites.

Why would my attitude be different if I lived near the border? The Border Agents live near the border, and see how much they wanted a wall?

My family did take in an "illegal" family from Haiti many years ago. The son remains a true "brother" of mine. It's kind of the spirit of Christmas, no?

And with the spirit in mind I will say farewell until next thread.

Merry Christmas.

Jay said...

There is no such thing as alt-right. Just thought I’d point that out.
You didn’t flip the door scenario for any other reason then to back yourself out of a corner. Didn’t work.
Your claim about experts is false. So is your claim about border agents. Is it shocking to you that Most of the ones I’ve heard and seen in interviews say we need the wall right now? So I’m sure there are one or two who disagree with that but they represent a very small minority of border aganets.
This is an argument you can’t win B/S. The majority of this country wants a wall. The majority of experts agree that it needs to happen.

sami gay said...

'I point out his association with the Muslim Brotherhood as a reason he was killed". Wow, that's a low, even for you Tom. You shrug off and defend a gruesome murder on the basis of spurious allegations by a regime that routinely beheads people and jails and tortures political activists. Wow, just wow.

Shane said...

Who says Iran is a "threat" other than the corporate (war machine) backed media (Israeli influenced). It's absurd. The on-going joke of them building "nukes" is equally absurd. recall Bibi holding up that ridiculous picture with a bomb.

Iran is not a threat to any American. But you know who is--both the Saudi's and Israeli's. compare the spying Israel has done in this country vs. Iran. Not even close. At all. Can anyone point to an equivalent, arab, version of AIPAC? Of course not. Does it not bother anyone that freshman in congress (most ALL of them) go to Israel!! Hello!!

Now we have an absurd, Orwellian, Bill that will criminalize anyone who dare criticize Israel. Can you imagine what George Washington would say??!! remember what he said regarding falling in love with other countries, yet so-called "patriots" try and justify it..Why? I don't know, apparently other countries are more important than their own...Pathetic really.

You guys here a woman in texas lost a job because she didn't support Israel...Come on folks, come on!!!!

"to find out who rules over you find out who you aren't allowed to criticize"